Regular or Pervert? (Fine Fantasies?? The Sequel)

Another fantasy that I have come across might be even worse than the rape fantasy, since as mentioned, for some reason it appears that many women have rape fantasies, or fantasies of submission.

Obviously, though, they would abhor it ACTUALLY happening, but for a fantasy, it's a safe escape from the potential bore of their regular sex lives.

But over the past years, and specifically at the current time, I am speaking to 6 "frum" women who have an EXTREMELY TABOO fantasy.

Incest.

Yes, you heard me correctly...incest!!

As in a sexual relationship with a close family member.

GROSS!! DISGUSTING!! YUCKY!! AWFUL!!!

Now, none of them would ever do it for real, and none of them think about any person under the age of consent. But some are more inclined to push the envelope in teasing more than others.

But they do very actively fantasize about their fathers, brothers, and one woman even fantasizes about her son who is about 22 or 23 years old.

Again, I do not condone such thoughts or behavior, but I am just raising the issue.

The Torah obviously forbids it. In fact, we read about incestuous relationships on mincha of yom kippur, for various reasons.

However, the mere fact that the Torah had to include it as forbidden, must be that people have thought about, and do think such images.

The Torah doesn't have to give a law that we should breathe, because that is ingrained.

If it was ingrained that incest is so repulsive and disgusting than the Torah would not have had to mention it.

Now, incestuous fantasies are probably more common among boys, who think of their mothers or sisters or aunts.

I know a number of people who have either admitted to me, or mentioned in jest some incestuous statements...

Or even one guy I know who got a bit too "spiritual" one Purim and told me very flat out, and I quote, "My mom is a real MILF, don't you think so too???"

Even the term MILF, made famous by the movie American Pie, indicates that incest has permeated the "main stream".

There are main stream movies and TV shows (such a Nip/Tuck) with incestuous story-lines.

I have even met a frum woman years ago online, who was divorced, and her son, in yeshiva, was also divorced, and she told me that they have engaged in sexual acts, but not full sex, although she feared...or hoped...or both...that full sex was forthcoming. Now again, who knows if she was telling the truth or not, but she sounded sincere over the phone.

Other women I have had phone sex with who asked to play those fantasies have had HUGE, intense orgasms, moreso than if we roleplayed something less "forbidden".

Perhaps it is the forbidden nature of it, the taboo. I don't know.

For frum boys, it might be that since they don't have much contact with the opposite sex (which I actually think is a good thing), then the only women they know freely who let their hair down, figuratively and literally, are their sisters and mothers.

But I was initially shocked to find how many women think the same things.

So, is this a fine fantasy? Are all fantasies fine, as long as it does not involve a minor?

I know many women have thoughts of their son-in-laws. In fact, there is a blog that I read about a women who talks about that openly.

Obviously, sons are very different. But is there some comparison.

When do fantasies go over the line?

Again, for people who have been abused by a family member, I apologise if it brings to the surface terrible memories, and I think it is TERRIBLY wrong...but I guess you know more htan anyone that those thoughts are present in the minds of people.

But are they regular people or did they pervert their minds?

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